The Philly gay nightlife scene is horrendous. All the bars are in desperate need of remodeling, new carpet, new paint, etc., etc. Nothing ever changes (except for a "renovation" upstairs at Woody's).

Here are the problems as I see them:

Woody's: drab, dirty, outdated, falling apart, nasty carpet, hideous ceiling

Uncle's: serves its purpose, but see above

12th Air: same as above, the layout doesn't make any sense, no one ever goes upstairs

Bump: terrible layout, nowhere to stand without being mowed over by servers, the restaurant space should be made smaller or moved elsewhere, no high tops, only a few chairs at the bar

Pure: serves its purpose, I consider Pure an attempt at a legitimate dance club

Tavern on Camac: no relationship between upstairs and downstairs, sound system upstairs is atrocious, no space upstairs, downstairs' layout is not conducive to traffic

Venture Inn: serves its purpose, but could be cleaned up a bit

That's really about it, save for a couple dive bars, which are important to have in the scene. Unfortunately, most of the "mainstream" bars are practically dive bars themselves. They all need a fresh coat of paint and new carpet (literally).

I haven't been to Knock yet (it just opened), and the Triumph owners are working on opening a space at the NW corner of 13th and Locust. I hope these fare better.

Aside from Miami, NYC and Chicago, gay bars in other major cities are all alike. In San Diego and Los Angeles they are no better than Philly aside from better music. I think in the past with gay bars being the only place for gay's to hang out and feel comfortable they knew they did not have to invest much into the place because were else would we go.

But now that homosexuality is becoming more sociably acceptable the desire to hang out in more trendier atmospheres instead of a concrete den with black walls is starting to take effect.

Woody has the right idea with Knock, it is a gay bar/restaurant with a taste of todays generation.

I think all the other bars except for BUMP could use a good demolition crew and a fresh start, but then again when it's packed shoulder to shoulder and you do not mind a shot of asbestos with your Southern Comfort then the owners will see no reason for improvements.

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"We painted the town red in our 1979 winnobego, ( PURPLE ) with maggie hanging her wooden leg out the window." OLD 4 SQ

Can't prove it but here's a plausible hypothesis. If Woody's, Pure and one other are all owned by the two Weiss brothers, maybe it's a good example of monopoly at work. It's not 1958 with the mob controlling them and paying for protection anymore.

I definitely agree that there is a monopoly situation among gay bar owners:

The Weiss brothers own Pure, Bump, and now Woody's, whose patrons must constitute well over 50% of the market.

Bill Wood (former owner of Woody's) has now opened Knock, which allegedly more upscale (haven't been yet).

What I don't understand though is that bar owners know there is a significant segment of the philly gay community that wants nicer bars, and who rarely go out because they're all crap. This is true especially of the more moneyed and the professional middle-aged crowd.

There are some nicer spots that are drawing those crowds, that aren't typically straight: Valanni, XIX, and one other whose name escapes me.

I have to say, for all the hype of San Francisco... the Castro sucks. Philly is no worse and no better. I had a better time in the Mission than I've ever had in the Castro, and I'm talking about the gay ghetto in the gayest city in America... if you believe all the hype. San Francisco is probably the last place on Earth you'd ever want to go to find a man, though.

I think the Internet has really taken its toll on gay bars, as it's subtracted a lot of people out of the gay nightlife who are solely interested in a hookup and really don't want to fool with getting to the bar, finding a way back home, and vetting whomever it is they're seeking. With hookup websites, chatrooms and webcams, a lot of these guys just found a reason not to even go to the bars, save for a holiday. [And personally, I don't think that's a bad thing... it removes a lot of people who are simply eff-ing annoying while I'm trying to enjoy my drink.]


This attitude though seems to only be contained in America. I wish Philly had more of a vibrancy that Montreal has right now [and New York used to have, but has since lost]. Very good music, awesome DJs, lots of very attractive people in their late 20s, 30s and 40s out, lots of stuff to do at night, the whole enchilada.

Compared to Montreal in terms of fun: Philly and now NYC feel like you're spending a weekend in your Jewish in-laws' 100-year-old mildewy bungalow.

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Buh-bye.

Drop the "allegedly" from "more upscale" in your description of Knock, two floors below me at the other end of the building from which I'm typing this. The "more moneyed and professional middle-aged crowd" is precisely who you will find populating the bar at Knock, which has been doing brisk business from the day it opened. Shosh gave me a good report from her recent visit there at the last PB HH: Besides noting that she was the only female in the place, she also noted that tables were turning over in the restaurant, which is a sign that the place is attracting good patronage. Knock and the second Tria in the next block south have both taken off like rockets patronage-wise. I have passed by Knock on nights since her visit where more than one woman was among the diners, though not the drinkers.

(I did get a report from a friend in the bass section of the Chorus of a bad meal he had at Knock during last night's season kickoff party. The chef himself came out to apologize to my friend and replace the dish, however, a gesture I would also consider a good sign.)

And how could you not call a restaurant with a $350 bottle of wine on its wine list upscale?

Shosh and I agreed that the Weiss brothers are undiluted sleazeballs, but their bars all do well. BTW, they also own one of San Diego's more popular gay bars, Bourbon Street. Bump benefits from the makeover its space got when it was converted from a Bike Line bicycle shop to Glöbar, a not-necessarily-gay restaurant the Weisses operated for about a year before changing the paint scheme from white to burnt umber, replacing the luminescent banquettes with regular ones, carpeting the floor, turning out the fluorescent lights in those big green fiberglass ceiling fixtures, hanging artistically posed pictures of naked guys on the walls and rechristening the whole thing Bump.

(Although Pure had looked a good deal worse than it does now in its prior incarnation as the 2-4 Club.)

I definitely do not like the makeover the Weisses gave Woody's dance floor, even if it did get rid of the fake columns that made the space feel smaller than it is. The wall scheme, however, I characterize as a cross between a bordello and an insane asylum.

The Venture Inn just got a major makeover, BTW. It's a good deal brighter both visually and aurally now, thanks to the all-yellow walls and wood floors that replaced the carpet. But since it changed hands (longtime owner Ted Wasserman sold it this past spring. I once wrote about him for a series on gay businesses in Philly for PGN; the profile was titled "What's a Straight Man Doing in a Gay Bar?" This was 1984, mind you), it seems to be a nice space in search of a clientele -- no longer "The Denture Inn" but not yet something else altogether.

Thinking back on the bars I frequented in Boston, I'm not so sure that they suck here more than elsewhere. Boston didn't get a stylish gay bar until the Metropolitan Health Club/Club Cafe (it has a different name now) opened shortly before I left. The rest were about as nicely outfitted as Philly's are, and fewer of them had windows you could look out of.

The gay scene here has a somewhat insular quality about it, but that's endemic to every one of the 150 or so small towns that collectively go by the name Philadelphia. The unique feature of the gay small town is that while it has a geographically defined territory, now conveniently marked with rainbow-flag street signs,* its inhabitants live all over the place.

*Only two other cities in the US have some sort of public signs or markers identifying their gay neighborhoods. Can you name the other two? Bonus: Name the neighborhoods too.

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Sandy Smith, Exile on Market Street, Philadelphia
"Perpetual optimism is a force multiplier." --Gen. Colin Powell

I was shocked to find out just how small the Castro business district is. One block in any direction from the intersection of 18th and Castro streets, and you've left it. (Market and Castro meet at 17th, which is where the Castro Street MUNI Metro station is located.) Our gayborhood business district feels a good deal larger, and that was even before the city extended it all the way to Chestnut Street.

Did I tell you how I found San Franciscans' self-satisfied smugness highly annoying? They prattled on about how diverse they were, but all the black folks were over there, in Oakland. Give me Seattle (gayborhood is Capitol Hill, gayborhood main drag is Broadway/Broadway East) any day.

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Sandy Smith, Exile on Market Street, Philadelphia
"Perpetual optimism is a force multiplier." --Gen. Colin Powell

I remembering reading about San Fran and their hoods, it mentioned something about their distinct gay hood, I can't recall the name of neighborhood...
I would guess the other city would be somewhere in Canada...

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Oh baby, baby
Ah, yeah, yeah
Oh baby, baby
Infraction THIS baby one more time
Oh baby, baby
Ah, yeah, yeah

...because everyone knows Canada is the 51st state of the US!

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Remedy for Electile Dysfunction: http://www.votenader.org/index.html



9/14, quote on elections, because shosh had to put up that thoughtful writeup on mediocrity and elitism:
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." — H. L. Mencken

"Montrose" is the gayborhood of Houston. I wonder if the OP is from H-town.

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Remedy for Electile Dysfunction: http://www.votenader.org/index.html



9/14, quote on elections, because shosh had to put up that thoughtful writeup on mediocrity and elitism:
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." — H. L. Mencken