Why would residents of the state's less civilized middle object to greater selection and lower prices? Anyway, the Phila and Pitts metro regions together probably make up a majority of PA's population, and presumably representation in Hburgh.

Now, now, we shouldn't do that on here, many read...

It has much to do with *other* reasons, presumably on moral grounds. There are many that would happily abolish alcohol altogether in the State as well.

__________________


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xCiKCxfYqE

:-) I assume you're referring to "less civilized?"

I know that we liberal types are often accused of looking down our noses at others, but really - people who don't believe in evolution, don't think women should be working with men, don't want black neighbors ... doesn't the word "uncivilized" apply?

Also, I am not, by any means, implying that everyone between Philly and Pittsburgh has noxious traits like these, but it'd be hard to say that certain types of ideas aren't more prevalent in less educated, more rural regions. Also also, there's obviously a good bit of retrograde here in the city, judging by our failing schools and high crime.

[PS - how do I get real smileys? I must be super dumb not to be able to figure it out!]

That is one major reason why not only Pennsylvania, but the other dozen or so states with state liquor monopolies, still have them: Prohibitionist sentiment remained strong in them even after most of the country had soured on it -- and that sentiment was, and largely remains, morally based (those who want to control alcohol use on health grounds these days do not advocate for tight restrictions on its sale -- in odd contrast to many of these same advocates' stance on cigarettes).

Politically useful trivia for you, thunda:

I've now lived in this state for 24 years.

Every elected Republican governor the state has had since I moved here has made some sort of effort to privatize the State Stores, which is the LCB reform with the widest popular support (most Pennsylvanians probably don't know enough about the licensing laws to care deeply about changing them).

None of these efforts came to pass -- even those initiated with the GOP in control of the Governor's Office and both houses of the Legislature.

If you're familiar with the Commonwealth's political geography, then you probably know that its GOP heartland is no longer Philadelphia's collar counties -- which still send a Republican majority to Harrisburg but have trended Democratic at the national, and now increasingly at the local, level over the past decade -- but the predominantly-rural territory outside the two biggest cities, including the metropolitan areas of Erie, Harrisburg, Johnstown, Altoona, Lancaster and York. (Reading, the Lehigh Valley and Scranton/Wilkes-Barre are political swing areas.) Republicans in this area, known as the "T" (carve out metropolitan Philadelphia, the Lehigh Valley and Greater Pittsburgh from a map of the state and see what remains), are even more socially conservative than they are fiscally conservative, in contrast to their metropolitan counterparts in Bucks, Chester, Delaware and Montgomery counties or southwestern Pennsylvania (which is more Democratic than suburban Philly to begin with).* Restricting the availability of alcohol is part of outstate Pennsylvania's social conservatism.

As a result, the state's most recent Republican governor -- Mark Schweiker, who moved into the office when President George W. Bush tapped Gov. Tom Ridge to be his first Secretary of Homeland Security -- didn't even try a lip-service move to privatize the State Stores. (Edited to add: Note that Schweiker moved to Philadelphia to head the Greater Philadelphia Chamber of Commerce after leaving office. He is not native to the region. Read into this what you will.)

If the state's historic voting pattern holds up in the next election, the governor we elect in 2010 will be a Republican, and he will be re-elected to a second and final term in 2014. My money is on his not even uttering the phrase "privatize the LCB" either during the campaign or once in office.

* Illustration with some relevance to the other subject of this thread: When the City of Lancaster added sexual orientation to its non-discrimination ordinance in the early 1990s, the Lancaster County Commissioners pulled the county out of the joint city-county Human Relations Commission, in existence since 1961; the commission was charged with enforcing the city's and county's nondiscrimination laws.

__________________
Sandy Smith, Exile on Market Street, Philadelphia
“Basically I figure guns are like gays: They seem a lot more sinister and threatening until you get to know a few; and once you have one in the house, you can get downright defensive about them.” --Theresa Neilson Hayden

Yes, after living in Montreal and spending signficant time in Toronto, NYC just seemed painfully boring during my last weekend of partying there.
Toronto actually has a great gayborhood in the Church street area.
There is no doubt that nightlife has declined across American in general since the 1990s, with any perceived lack of decline in Philadelphia making it no different.

********************************************

Congratulations for still being together with your 'significant other' after all these years! How wonderful! Wishing the both of you another 31 years of happiness and joy together!

Having grown up in Ft. Lauderdale area I could add to your list ... like Ruthie's Golden Garter, and what about The Tunnel and The Everglades ... are they still there??? Then there were the places in nearby Hollywood, now long gone like TeeJay's, the Odds-n-Ends Executive Lounge, Keith's Cruise Room, etc.

__________________
"Do I contradict myself? Very well then, I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes." -- Walt Whitman, Leaves Of Grass

Having grown up in a semi-dry county in Florida (could buy beer at grocery store, had to go across county line for liquor and wine, no licenses for restaurants) ... you'd be amazed at the ridiculous arguments made to keep these antiquated rules in place.

In the county where i lived, there were a lot of people who realized the rule was stupid and actually hurt business, because all the restaurants located themselves in the surrounding counties. But every time the issue would come up for a vote, a very vocal minority would take to the streets. One of their arguments was that if liquor licenses were granted, next thing you know there'd be strip clubs lining Main St.

Never mind that the county could very well pass an ordinance against strip clubs, or not grant them liquor licenses. The scare tactic was actually succesful, over and over again.

luckily, the next county was only a few minutes away (kind of like Jersey here). If I lived in the interior of PA and had to deal with the beer and wine regs, it would really piss me off.

WOW...I'd never heard of Ruthies. The Tunnel is long gone and now that area is lined with high rise condos. The only one remaining is the Everglades and it is still on Federal Highway on the corner down the street from Ernie's Restaurant.

__________________
"Love your neighbor; yet don't pull down your hedge."
-Benjamin Franklin

__________________
Your representatives on Philadelphia's City Council are at odds with our new mayor over whether many reforms he has proposed should become law. Please write to them and tell them what your priorities are.

Indict State Senator Vince Fumo into The Crooked Pol Hall of Fame.

Why does Philadelphia not have any male strip clubs? I have been to many cities where they have them and honestly they can be a lot of fun. Guys just looking to hook up go to them and the other bars become nicer. They are also great for parties, etc.

Anyone care to attack/respond?