I don't get the hate for Woody's. Is it really the decor? In my experience, the best reason to go to a gay bar is to be around other gay people, and by that measure, Woody's has been reliable for years. Who cares about the decor? In fact, one of the things I really like about it is that it isn't one of those fashion-victim bars you so often get in NYC, and that it's diverse, and always full. Woody's popularity isn't mystifying to to me at all.

How are they an annoyance? I know you're not saying that they are, but I don't get why other people are annoyed with them. I thought diverse and lively street life was precisely the point of living in a city. They aren't doing any harm, they're just young queers being young queers, and God bless them for that. That's what makes a gayborhood, ladies and gentleman ... if you don't like it, go hang out with the straights.

I'm glad some others stepped in to calm the scaredy cat down before I had to open my can of whup-ass.

I walk that block a lot, and while I know that there have been "incidents" on it -- and I think we all know about those incidents -- the bulk of the activity is young black queens being young black queens, an activity not looked upon too favorably at the DL bars in their own 'hoods. The "houses" -- locally (and nationally), the fiercest one is the House of Blahnik -- also offer safe spaces for these kids to be themselves, but what they're doing on 13th Street isn't that much different from what "mall rats" do at Neshaminy or Granite Run; only the hours, setting, nature of the kids, and numbers are different.

Keep in mind also that Woody's hosts the most popular all-ages night in the Gayborhood on Wednesday nights. This crowd probably grew out of that event and made the area around the bar a regular gathering spot.

On Monday nights, there is a popular support group for gay minority youth at the Wash West Project right across 12th Street from me. I've never noticed any trouble among the kids who hang out after the meeting. Kids will be kids, you know.

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Sandy Smith, Exile on Market Street, Philadelphia
“Basically I figure guns are like gays: They seem a lot more sinister and threatening until you get to know a few; and once you have one in the house, you can get downright defensive about them.” --Theresa Neilson Hayden

It's not really the decor. I really don't care what a place looks like. He11 I usually hang out at the Bike Stop or Locust Bar. But I've found when friends are visiting from places like NYC or Chicago, they're impressed by the atmosphere at places like Bump or Valanni - at least for a drink. I just don't care for the crowd at Woody's. For a place that's always packed, I have a very hard time striking up a conversation there.

As for the kids outside, the only people with a legitamate right to be annoyed with them are the people who live in that apartment building. Aside from that, you're right. If you can't turn a blind eye to the elements of the gay community you don't like, go hang out in Old City.

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The idealistic are no longer concerned with influencing public opinion and creating a free world of responsible and ethical social choices, but rather imposing opinion through legislation, mandating these ethics, and outlawing choice in what the loudest sample finds offensive.

Ban the Bans. It's a slippery slope between Idealism and Fascism.

Pace the efforts of Philadelphia Style, Philadelphia is not a fashion-forward or particularly stylish city. I happen to consider this a point in its favor -- Philadelphians are far less impressed by surface flash, for instance, than New Yorkers or Angelenos are -- but I can see where that would prove disappointing to residents of cities where people don't wear sweatshirts when going out casually.

I've referred to Bump as "Philadelphia's most un-Philadelphian gay bar", and that applies as much to the sartorial tastes of the patrons as it does to the interior decor. That -- along with the development of similarly stylish non-gay places like G Lounge -- is a sign that the city is developing a slightly higher level of aesthetic sophistication, but I really hope that this city never becomes one where you can't just throw on a sweatshirt if that's what you feel like wearing.

Funny: I've probably struck up as many random conversations in Woody's as I have in Bump. Then again, I don't go out to do that all that much.

Valanni's makeover is quite impressive, BTW, and gives the place an actual bar to boot. Wonder how much longer it will remain the gayborhood's only "DL" gay hangout? (I use the term here because while the place is gay-friendly to the extreme, it does not advertise itself as a restaurant/bar aimed specifically at gay patrons.)

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Sandy Smith, Exile on Market Street, Philadelphia
“Basically I figure guns are like gays: They seem a lot more sinister and threatening until you get to know a few; and once you have one in the house, you can get downright defensive about them.” --Theresa Neilson Hayden

I'm sure you're right about that. Which is why I prefer to live in Philly over NYC or Chicago. Still, Woody's is Philly-tastic for me, and I sincerely mean that as a compliment.

Agreed. Or, you know, actually get beyond your own self-loathing and learn to love all elements of your gay community, because, let's face it, boys, we're all in this together.

Thats hardly an element of the gay community (hanging in the streets). Have you been to other cities? It no wonder why we're always knocked down...its because of the messes hanging on 13th. And I got a question for ya? Why are they all black?...Cant they find something else to do, instead of having the cops baricade the street and force people off with batons. Its actually scary, and if they wanna act a fool and jump in front of cars and act like animals, then they can stay there...because they aint going anywhere in life. As for me, I'll leave places like woodys and key west to the losers. peace

We were responding at the same time, MarketStEl, and as usual, you said what I was trying to say with markedly more style and grace. Long live the sweatshirt.

Given your rapier prose, I'm going to leave it to you to deal with sparky5's latest profound insights.

I totally agree. I prefer Philly-tastic places to pretentious Stand & Model bars. And MSE, I really doubt you have to worry. I don't think the day will ever come when Philly completely abandons it's speak-easy style watering holes for an "upscale" carbon copy of Manhattan. As long as there are just enough places to appease the New York transplants and keep them out of my way.

__________________
The idealistic are no longer concerned with influencing public opinion and creating a free world of responsible and ethical social choices, but rather imposing opinion through legislation, mandating these ethics, and outlawing choice in what the loudest sample finds offensive.

Ban the Bans. It's a slippery slope between Idealism and Fascism.

So you're racist in addition to self-loathing. Charming. A wonderful addition to PB.

[quote=omnivore]I don't get the hate for Woody's. Is it really the decor? In my experience, the best reason to go to a gay bar is to be around other gay people, and by that measure, Woody's has been reliable for years. Who cares about the decor? In fact, one of the things I really like about it is that it isn't one of those fashion-victim bars you so often get in NYC, and that it's diverse, and always full. Woody's popularity isn't mystifying to to me at all.

Maybe this marks me as "un-Philadelphian" but I do think that nightlife has a certain aspect of presentation: you dress it up bit and try look cute. Obviously, there's a place for low-key places like Locust Bar, but I do think it's a rather sad comment on the city's scene that the main gay bar (and Woody's is pretty much universally acknowledged as such) is such a dump. I am embarrassed to bring out of town friends there and usually opt for Bump or Valanni instead, or else skip the Gayborhood entirely. I also think the connection between well dressed/trendy and shallow/inauthentic is a little too deeply etched in this city. Likewise, dirty isn't always gritty.

I don't think it's sad at all. Sure, dressing up is fun and all, but we have places to do that, namely Bump, Valanni, the new Tria, XIX, etc. Sometimes I want to dress up and be fabulous, and I really appreciate that Philly now has places where one can do that. But I also really like that the main, default gay bar is relaxed, friendly, and unpretentious ... which are exactly the traits I like about Philly itself. I like that the city's default gay bar reflects the best parts of its civic culture. We have options here, which reflect our uniqueness, and that's unalloyed good in my book.

I agree with you about Philly confusing dirty and gritty, but I definitely have too much experience with the other one to disbelieve it. Maybe it's not fair to judge a book by its cover, but I haven't met many trendy guys who don't have a profoundly shallow* side to them.

*oxymoron alert!