Amen to that.

How many people who go to Dave and Busters would ever set foot within a half mile of the Wagner? But your point is dead on: there's plenty for families to do here.

No, no, a thousand times no!

There are garages. Maybe they could be cheaper I don't know. The Ol days of finding a spot on the street are going to dissapear over the next few years. Get used to it. I hate when people come in the city to visit us and spend 35 mins looking for a spot. This puts them in a foul mood that doesn't dissipate until they have drink. I think i'll volunteer to pay for visitors parking from now on. Try and find parking in NYC or SF, the city can't roll you in and out in a limo to keep you happy.

I think Philadelphia will do fine, which is why I moved here. The shops will come. I think city residents are pretty underserved in general and hopefully retailers are noticing it. Still I'm happy with what we have. I've been to the burbs once here, I won't be going back.

__________________
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard. - H.L. Mencken

Strawbridge's target market doesn't overlap all that much with Kmart. Strawbridge's merchandise and prices are identical to what you would find in a Famous-Barr (Strawbridge's corporate sister in the Midwest) that's nowhere near a Kmart.

I didn;t realize there were only two shops on walnut. lots of young folks do their everyday shopping at J Crew and Banana Republic (which, not incidentaly, carries different fashions than the k of P one which is more conservative). Walnut is also home to the Gap, Zara (a spanish version of Banana Republic and the only one in the country), Talbot's, as well as William's sonoma. There are also a number of places in the city to shop that aren;t chains and offer alternatives to those willing to wear something that maybe everyone else doesn't have. I hope that soemday we do have a nordstrom's, there is very little I need to leave the city for. At least to K of P. even when I lived ten min from K of P I did most of my shopping on the internet instead of the mall. I go to K of P twice a year for Nordstrom's semi-annual sale yet I don;t feel like I'm missing anything. I was missing something when I did my shopping at Acme instead of the RTM or ninth st. I was missing something when my morning coffee was burnt beans from starbucks instead of La Colombe. I was missing something when I had to drive 25 min to go to cool bar. I was missing something when I was getting pissed off everyday sitting in traffic. At any rate, I do hope the proposed target gets built on market st.

__________________
"You down wit OPM?"
Fumo: "Yeah, you know me!"

1st I want to agree with you all that Center City has a wealth of entertainment venues and will continue to add more that will be very sucessful. People are willing to pay for parking and be inconvienced in order to be entertained. Shopping is a whole different story. I am talking about major shopping trips for a back to school wardrobe or a new TV, not somthing you pick up on your way home from work. If you wake up on Saturday morning and realize you need to go looking for a new bed or a vacume cleaner, it doesn't make sense that you will head for center City instead of the mall. And illiniwek, there are differences between one Strawbridges and another. The may Co targets their merchandise to their customer base, and the customer base is very different ar the gallery than at Kof P. I've lived in the densest part of CC for 10 years, love it and wouldnt live any where else. But when I need to shop, I take my car out of the garage and head for the best selection at the best price where I can comparison shop, park for free and load my car and come home.

I obviously am not a real shopper b/c I never load the car. K of P does NOT, and never did, have the best prices. it's target market is upscale an price insensitive. willing to pay a premium for their products (this is where your free parking comes in) in order to have the convenience of having so many high end shops under on roof. I don't think cc should try to compete with that. it shoud be different. if you want to look just like everyone else, drive to k o p. my gf has discovered several smaller stores that are meeting her needs. we thought they were more expensive (many are) but when we comparison shopped in the chains, they were the same price for similar clothes. when you factor inteh drive from K of P, what are you saving really?

__________________
"You down wit OPM?"
Fumo: "Yeah, you know me!"

Yeah the burbs are famous for their low prices! Picture that. If I need a T.V I'm not going to KofP, maybe i'll go to Delaware. I agree were underserved in the city and things could be better but last time I was in NYC walking around the LES or even Soho they are underserved as well, same with the village and most neighborhoods around Manhattan. You can't put a 15k square foot crazy eddies on walnut. People in Philadelphia complain about the oddest things but seriously parking and no suburban style shopping is just an irrational request. If that's really what you want then you don't get it so forget you. Plenty others get it and are moving in.

I think it could be better, I want more small independent stores personally. We don't have enough music/book stores. Not nearly enough coffee shops and there is plenty of room on the eastside for good quick lunch spots. How about magazine kiosks and 24 hour restaraunts. Hell even more taxis would help. I had to share a taxi again today.

__________________
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard. - H.L. Mencken

Strawbridges and L&T are like Kmart? Um, if you want the best business suit department in all of Philadelphia, it's at the Center City Lord & Taylor. Both Center City stores have about double the merchandise.

I'd take navigating Walnut and Chestnut Streets via foot and cab ANY DAY OF THE WEEK over navigating the Schuylkill and parking lot at King of Prussia. Not to mention the last time I was there, some woman got mugged in the parking lot who worked at the mall and I kid you not, another woman tripped on uneven pavement and broke her nose. Not that it's typical but the idea that it's more safe was sort of blown out of the water.

There is plenty of real money and real shoppers who live in Center City...plenty who don't even own cars. Plenty of people who would prefer to be able to shop without driving a car or forking over the $8 to park and not drive 40minutes to an hour to King of Prussia. My time is worth something to me...Walnut and Chestnut Streets are PACKED during 12-2pm during the week...the Banana on Broad is soooo much less conservative than KoP...what I like about KoP is that they still have the cool stuff that sold out of CC's BR weeks before.

Ugh. I long for a Nordstrom (that actually has more than a shoe department like at KoP) as well as a Sephora, Crate & Barrel and Pottery Barn. Now that I've found all the stores I need, I rarely go to the burbs. And if I need the TV, vacuum cleaners, etc., I head to Delaware Avenue.

__________________
Resident of Fishtown, Moderator of Fish/No. Libs/Kenzo forum, Real Estate Agent-Prudential Fox & Roach

Stores you can't find anywhere else in a mall? This is a joke right? Store's you can't find anywhere else are places like Ubiq, Boyd's, Smith Brothers, Mitchell and Ness, etc. Center City could use another department store, I agree with you there, but Im not really feeling the whole mall analogy.

If anyone really wants a mall-like city, they should move to DC.

Why do so many want Philly to be like some other city? I didn't choose to move to NYC, Chicago, Boston, etc. I chose PHILADELPHIA, with all its grit, slow pace, funkiness, and in-your-face people.