At what point do you consider yourself in the burbs and at what point are you in the city? I have seen that this can very depending upon where you are and who you are talking to. What are your thoughts?

I think that Bucks, Chester, Delaware, and Montgomery are the burbs. Philadelphia is the city. Although places like Upper Darby are more urban than say Chestnut Hill, there's still a difference. Once you live in Philadelphia County, the wage tax, the Democratic machine and all its red tape, poor city services, etc. hit you, then you are in the city. I think once you cross that border, it's somewhat of a different world, even though you are so close.

So it is more of a political and tax boundary?

I think if you live in South Philly, Pennsport, Queens Villiage, Bella Vista, Old City, 3B, CC West, Loft District, NoLib, Fishtown, North Philly to the end of the Broad St. line, Art Museum/Fairmont, Univeristy City and West Philly, you live in the city. Otherwise, you're in the burbs.

If I had to square it off, I would say the Delaware River on the East, Olney on the North, Pattison on the South and like 55th St to the West.

__________________
Jason
Lynn Swann 06'

"Individualism is absent when other peoples' standards, not reality and reason, are ones primary guide."

when everything is a strip mall full of chains stores. :wink:

Interesting question. In the last 10-15 years, the whole phenom of the "inner-ring suburb" has kind of changed the equation. Now you have places like U. Darby that are physically, culturally, & historically more related to the city than the suburbs of which they're ostensibly a part. And they're suffering the same problems. I tend to sympathize with communities like that, since they've been abandoned in favor of the newer, glitzier, more soulless burbs farther out. But they're still suburbs.

The boundaries of the city of Philadelphia were set - what? - 150 years ago. Those boundaries, arbitrary though they may be, still mean something to me.

That being said, it may be time to consider changing the boundaries, perhaps even shrinking the city's size. Though I suppose the surrounding counties wouldn't really want to add more low-income neighborhoods.

Depends on which Philadelphia-
The boundaries of the City of Philadelphia were set as Delaware to Schuylkill, and Vine to South back in the 1600s

Actually, early on, the 5 county area was only 3 couties- you only had Chester, Philadelphia and Bucks Counties.

The Boundaries of the County of Philadelphia were set around the same time as those of the city, but much bigger, Philadelphia County included all of what is now Montgomery County, the Main Line, Conshy, Norristown, Royersford, Pottstown; and Glenside, Fort Washington, Ambler Lansdale Hatfield Souderton; and Oaks, Collegeville, Rahns, Schwenksville, Green Lane, Red Hill Pennsburg...

Then, Montgomery County was split from Philadelphia, and Delaware County Split from Chester, leaving the current county boundaries.

City of Philadelphia was consolidated with the County of Philadelphia because political corruption and anti immigrant / anti catholic mob violence
wracked large areas of the City, and fire and police refused to cross between townships, boroughs and the City. City Hall's web site has a scan of the old boundaries under "1854twpa.jpg"

But, back when the County boundaries were drawn, much of the area outside the City of Philadelpia was still rolling fields - Chestnut Hill was a civil war hospital train stop set out in the farms outside Philadelphia, there were grain mills in Kinsessing, and South Philadelphia south of Passyunk Ave was still underwater at high tide.

So, the "current" city boundaries are accidents of fact, they don't really have any bearing on what is or is not part of the "City"- there are places in the burbs that are as old, or older than many areas of the Current City, and have been tied to Philadelphia by road, rail or trolley for hundreds of years, while there are areas inside Philadelphia's boundaries that aren't.

What's harder is to put your finger on perception- for example, I believe that during the new Stadium location controversy, a pollster found that something like 80% of the suburban ticket purchsasers who were polled responded that they hadn't set foot in Philadelphia in the last year- despite the fact that they had physically been in the Stadium to watch an Eagles Game several times that year, however mentally they were not aware of 'being in Philadelphia'

Hal

i wouldn;t mind seeing the boroughs broken up into separate entities within the county of philadelphia. Chestnut hill, Manayunk, etc making their own decisions.

What are some of the more positive aspects of the burbs? What makes them a popular place to work and live in, aside from the taxes and schools?

"Suburb" and "city" are not opposites. An area can be either urban, suburban, subrural, or rural. City, like township and borough (or boro for those in NJ), is a politican definition and should not be confused with urban, suburban, etc. NE Philly is suburban, Camden is urban. Chestnut Hill is suburban, Chester is urban.