Interesting article in today's Inky by Inga Saffron in which she calls Philadelphia's zoning code antiquated (something which I've been arguing for quite some time).

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/11815977.htm

One interesting point she makes is taht the Byzantine zoning code favors big developers over the little guy (listening Hal ;-) ?) since the big guys have the connections and the high powered lawyers who allow them to get through the process. Thus, the zoning code seems to do exactly what many of the proponents of it on this forum don't want it to do - favor big high rises over restorations and small townhomes (yes, I know the article doesn't refer to restorations but it does refer to the morass that has to be negotiated for even the simplest of property modifications). Only the big guys ahve the financial wherewithall and the patience to deal with the process and, to make it economical to do so, they will wnat to build the high rises.

Excellent article, yes this zoning discussion
brings out lots of interesting facts.

On a more grass roots level, there is a new Vietnamese
restaurant that is going to be sandwiched between Geno's
(9th and Passyunk) and the Mexican place located to the
north on 9th St. So for whatever reason, they needed to
appeal to the ZBA. There was a meeting of the Passyunk
Square group, where we heard,

1. "Oh, you have to bring in your tables at night."

2. "We would prefer to see table service, without paper of course."

Now the owners, and PAID-FOR lawyer, all very enterprising young people mentioned that the tables were already bought and they doubted they could go inside at night. Meanwhile, I was thinking how come Geno's gets to serve their steak sandwiches without proper napery, the china, or the Waterford crystal?

I do not know any of the parties involved so if I am stepping on anyone's
toes here ...... please allow me to apologize in advance!

"SANDWICHED between Geno's ...." HAH.


Joel

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Now that is being proactive! It is a shame the city does reform some of its processes, but hopefully the next administration will do so.

Nobody said that they had to bring the tables in at night, however, it was requested. The table service was requested, as well, but again, not a major sticking point with the zoning committe.

However, the biggest sticking point was the exhaust system and weather it is legal or not to go thru the wall with it and into the easement. The committee definitely had a problem with this most of all, requesting that the exhaust go thru the building. This is sometning David Auspitz demands, though there is also a dispute weather that is the code or not.

Incidentally, the ZBA hearing for this is Tue., June 7 if you wish to support or oppose it.

As far as Geno's is concerned ( and Pat's, as well) no, they won't be serving their sandwitches all fancy like any time soon, though I would like to see them help with the neighborhood clean-up efforts as their refuse from their patrons litters the area for blocks.

As far as L&I and zoning goes, I'm going thru the process right now, so maybe I'll keep you posted on all the fun. My first encounter was actually quite fast, as I got there as soon as they opened. Then the line grew longer and longer, as did the faces of everyone in that line. It was like watching people lining up for toilet paper in the Soviet Union.

Just curios, Joely, what made you come down from 7th and Pine to attend a PSCA zoning meeting?

Great article - wrong forum.

Which is why I started a duplicat thread. Why would you put a thread about an explicitly city-wide issue in a particular neighborhood's forum?

Back on topic. This is one of Philly's biggest problem's and perhaps even more than more than tax reform the issue the Philly really needs to address to equip itself to move into the 21st century and out of the 19th one. I myself might include patronage and political corruption but I think this quote is really, really informative about their interrelation.

For me its a fairness issue. If I were involved with this at all, I would look to the left, look to the right, and see what those guys got going on already. Then I would deal with everyone in the same way. If you want the tables inside, first you call a meeting of all the restaurants and stands, and then you tell all of them about bringing the tables inside. Then you duck for cover.

Geno's and the Mexican place are great as they are. I do not think adding linen, Rosenthal china, and Waterford crystal are what people are looking for over there. Fact remains that the old push cart place that has been vacant for years now has some brand new enterprising young people moving in. And it adds choices! I would encourage them in every way possible. Hiring lawyers to get the go ahead to open a sandwich stand is still strange for me.

You wrote,

As far as Geno's is concerned (and Pat's, as well) no, they won't be serving their sandwiches all fancy like any time soon, though I would like to see them help with the neighborhood clean-up efforts as their refuse from their patrons litters the area for blocks.


REPLY

Okay, that's an enforcement issue. If the neighbors are sick and tired of trash, and its simple to fix. Its simple to bring together ALL THE BUSINESSES that create the trash and work out a solution between EVERYONE.

People helping people is what I like to see. As a gratuitous comment, I have noticed the Geno's people working pretty hard to control their trash, but I will look further and comment appropriately. My sense is that the Vietnamese people will be very decent neighbors.

So what time is the ZBA meeting? Their website is completely out of whack. They think this week is May 25 and NEXT WEEK is June 1st. This means June 8th is nowhere to be found.


Joely


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Joely







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Just once again, want to point out that the table, plates and linens were really a non-issue to the committee. Looked more like the committee trying to get as much as possible from this operation. The real issue is the exhaust system, which may or may not be a code violation. As far as hiring a lawyer to open a sandwich shop, that is because the space is zoned C-2, which does not include a food prep establishment, I believe. Then again who can tell besides a zoning attorney, because the code is so complicated as written, which I suppose was your point.

And your're right, that ZBA site is totally outta whack. Perhaps they'll update it tomorrow?

And I'm still curious as to why you went to a PSCA zoning meeting. Perhaps purely for the entertainment value?

Back to the Saffron article:

Can it be argued that this ties zoning variances to pay to play, since all I need to do to get my project going os donate to one or two council members?

You wrote,


Just once again, want to point out that the
table, plates and linens were really a non-issue
to the committee. Looked more like the committee
trying to get as much as possible from this operation.

REPLY

Ahemmmmmmmm. Are you saying you were trying to strong-arm them? Here they are, coming to you, hat in hand, begging not to be forced to cut holes directly upwards, through the apartments above to vent out the roof. If it were new construction, then I would see it as being necessary. But remember this is replacing the failed push cart operation. These guys will pay some taxes, provide some jobs, and improve the neighborhood.

And, they are not about to rake in cash hand over fist. I bet they will need to advertise, to cajole, and convince people to try their stuff.

Its a sandwich shop. Vietnamese Hoagie Wraps or something. Its a counter operation as is Geno's the next door neighbor a counter operation. Tables, plates, and linens sounds like you are being unfair.

Sorry, but that's my honest, unprofessional opinion. Its not a biggie, but I wouild be uncomfortable towards someone coming into my neighborhood to improve a real eyesore.


Joel

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Yes, it was extremely entertaining!


Joel

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