Working on it:

http://philly.metro.us/metro/local/a...way/12423.html

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Old City: Suburban Paradise in the city. Only a couple of years away.

as mentioned.


there's a massive underground network of tunnels and concourses.


So.. no need for a ped bridge.


But by capping the station you're cutting off the station from light and air.

Also?


Why are we against trees?


THere's actually nothing wrong with this park that maybe 200,000 in lighting wouldn't fix.


and cafe's....they can be placed there no problem.


Just don't need ANY need to sped Millions to revamp it.


Let's try to make it work as is now.





Red Lines are existing tunnels

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It's too tall..! it ruins the feel of the city..! It casts massive shadows..! It's an architectural nightmare..! We should stand together and fight this monstrosity that threatens our homes..! ...but amazingly no one tore down the Eiffel Tower.

or.. why we shouldn't always listen to "neighborhood groups" and critics.

I know what's posted is just an idea, it could work but with extreme attention to design, and that glass cube sure needs it.

It will have to be extremelly transparent, exactly as the NY apple store entrance to work. One steel beam, one mechanical outlet, or elevator entrance and you will kill the idea.

As it is right now is hideous.

Other than that the whole scheme looks promising.

The rendering is also available in the Google Video format and as an .mp4 file here-

http://www.centercityphila.org/about...ions.php#video

It's been about 3 years since I've worked downtown, but I do recall a decent crowd in LOVE for lunch on nice days.
But only at those times.
The opening of the Phoenix and a cafe at the old visitors center has not had the impact I expected at LOVE. More people hang out at the sidewalk cafes in front of the Phoenix.
And you're right about it being cut off from the grid, JUST LIKE DILWORTH.

If you're saying LOVE could work, then what makes you think Dilworth will work. They'll be directly competing for parkgoers.
As for Ritt being mobbed, that's what makes it a draw. It's a cycle in which more people attract more people.
Ritt being crowded is a good thing.

As for the ice rink. I like. RiverRink is garbage.
I just hope it's not a fleeting novelty.

Just like the Phoenix, Ritz and Ellington will be populated by rich folks.
Phoenix has done little for LOVE. Ritz and Ellington are no different. Rich people don't want to hang out in the middle of a traffic circle.
As for Liberty 2, Dilworth and Ritt are equidistant. Which one do you think they'll pick?


I think you hit the nail on the head. Innovative and unique solutions for the space are the only saving grace for Dilworth.

As it stands right now, I'm not sure these plans accomplish that.
With all due respect to Laurie Olin, everything his firm is proposing has already been done before.
Aside from the glass structure, it's very conservative in design and function.

I can't offer much of a solution, but I'm not so sure that this space is appropriate for open space. We have enough open space in this area (Ritt, Wash, LOVE, Comcast, Pkwy, 1700 Market)
IMO, what does work is the east side of Penn Sq where City hall meets the sidewalk w/ a zero setback.

I know I'm being very critical, but I wish it the best.

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My restlessness is my nemesis.

I dislike the way you space your posts but I agree with this. there's no need for a ped bridge.
that's okay, particularly if they bring in heating/cooling elements like suburban station. they could also then lock the area to keep homeless out at night. As is, the depressed area that brings "light and air (shots of pee and poop smells really) are what kill dilworth plaza and are part of the reason I usually get off at walnut-locust late at night.

I was thinking this as I walked through city hall last night. why no trees?

no, there is. the depressed areas don't work. I imagine they were initially suppose to give people an "oasis" from the traffic circle but, outside rush hour, I think most people would rather be at level with the traffic than isolated. If you were going to go with a less expensive design, I'd still recomend raising the depressed area and renovating the space beneath to be more seamless with suburban station. you could put the ice rink there or, per johnnie, over on the MSB's plaza.

Ritt is too crowded and can get annoying. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I'd actually be equidistant between this new park and Wash Sq. I'd use this proposed park. Heck, I walk through it every day there's decent weather as it is...although I like walking through the north portico (that is what it's called right?) I'd view a revamping of LOVE and Dilworth was an extension of the parkway. also, there's a hotel going in on arch.

re: traffic and bridges, it does bring up an interesting point. perhaps it should be coupled with some traffic changes. I've always though that arch shoudl be two ways between 15th and broad. As it is, everyone is forced into the circle which is congested enough. Maybe it should be two way as far as the Reading Terminal.

Historically, when City Hall was built, the MSB was the city's main train station.

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Fumo: "Yeah, you know me!"

Bryant Park in NYC shows outdoor movies in the spring/summer, is really cool and is a huge attraction.

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Dave you are the sazon to my rice n' beans

Candy Galore

Am a Tree Hugger

I luv Candy

Pardon me for picking a nit, but there never has been any railroad-related structures or facilities where the MSB now sits.

Broad Street Station's headhouse sat on what is now the sunken portion of Dilworth Plaza; Broad Street originally ran right next to City Hall's west wall (equivalent to a mid-block alignment between Broad and 15th just as East Penn Square is aligned with Juniper Street, the midblock between 13th and Broad). 15th Street ran in an underpass beneath the east end of the Broad Street Station trainshed, most of which occupied the site that now contains 1515 Market (Two Penn Center) and 1500 JFK Boulevard (Three Penn Center) -- these two structures being the first buildings erected as part of the PRR's redevelopment of Broad Street Station and its viaduct into the Penn Center office complex, in 1955.

I believe the MSB site contained random office buildings.

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Sandy Smith, Exile on Market Street, Philadelphia
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." --Mark Twain, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court

i don't think tunnels or bridges are the ideal solution.
IMO, i think tunnels are worse. Who wants to walk through a tunnel to get to a park?

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My restlessness is my nemesis.

As El mentioned, the rink or pond should go across the street at MSB. Get rid of those ugly a$$ chess/game pieces. The MSB plaza is always abandoned.

Personally, I think a bridge or tunnel would be a huge waste of money. Just retime the lights to allow for a pedestrian only crossing and no green lights. Traffic already snarls there so it wouldn't be a huge change.

I somewhat agree with zur that the current plaza is not terrible. Just get rid fo the bums so sitting on a bench is not an adventure.

El is right about the recessed areas should be covered over though. I just dont think a major rehaul of the whole area is necessary. The 15th street side along the road is ok if seats were available. The North side however is barren and could use some renovation.