Overall I like it. I like the water element, particularly the ice skating rink (which gives it a use during winter-I woudl have thought johnnie would like this). I also like the inclusion of private business (cafe's, it appears)which seem to really liven up the public spaces in Spain and Italy. Above all, it's a vast improvement over what's there now. one of the reasons the homeless love it is the large number of benches, poor lighting, and the fact it's shielded form the street. in a nod to zur, I'd like to see the underground area merged seamlessly with suburban station's concourse (which is much better maintained than the city concourse...hey look at that, a SEPTA compliment!). People use rittenhouse and, to a lesser extent, washington sq so I don't see why no one would use this. people live and work nearby and now that city hall is open more, I pass through it more often. I'm undecided about the box.

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"You down wit OPM?"
Fumo: "Yeah, you know me!"

Note that the glass cube is designed so that it straddles the passage from the west portal to the 15th/Market intersection. I think that would work just fine and be way cool. (Thread-tying alert: Maybe they could put an Apple Store beneath the reflecting pool where the sunken part of Dilworth Plaza now sits! )

zur: If I didn't know better, I'd say you have turned into a full-blown Negadelphian. And for all I know, maybe you have. I'm sure the residents of that new Ritz tower would probably prefer looking at this to looking at what's there now -- and they would be more likely to hang out on the grass than on the stone benches now there. As another poster said, people do use this space now when there's an event on it; I think those same people would be equally inclined to linger there with a more inviting design. This certainly qualifies.

JFK Plaza is getting a makeover too? I don't know how far along it is, and I know there's been a lot invested in that alternate skatepark site (in FDR Park? Below the Art Museum?), but IMO the redesign should make it possible for the skateboarders to return and leave in the features that made it such a draw.

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Sandy Smith, Exile on Market Street, Philadelphia
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." --Mark Twain, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court

No, overall I like it, especially the rink! The bums there really are a nuisance though. I dont think the cops can just kick them out though?

The Box is like a Glass vergion of this:

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TAFKATLB(TheArtistFormerlyKnowAsTheLoveBelow)

Being a nuisance can get you kicked out. See Rittenhouse Square for more on that/...

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TAFKATLB(TheArtistFormerlyKnowAsTheLoveBelow)

the glass box is no roman arch. aside from the rink, I think the biggest departure is the introduction of rent paying businesses to city parks...and I like it. did you watch the video or just look at the pics posted in the thread?

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"You down wit OPM?"
Fumo: "Yeah, you know me!"

I'm skeptical.

Parks in an office district are a tough draw.
We already have LOVE park, which is by no means teeming w/ users, aside from the occasional protest, rally or octagenarian city planner on a skateboard.

Also, look at your comps nationwide.
Gov't Center, Boston - empty
Civic Center Plaza, San Fran - empty
Washington Park, Newark - empty
Pershing Sq, LA - empty
and so on.
The only places that seem to buck the trend are Millenium Park in Chicago and possibly City Hall in NYC.
Chicago works cuz it's a huge tourist attraction and NYC cuz it's a nice oasis in a very, very dense area.
Based on that, the chips are stacked against Dilworth Plaza.

Adjacent residential areas have Rittenhouse and Wash Sqs, which are already very established green spaces that draw residents and office workers - so you're probably not going to draw people away from there.

And unless you make 15th, Juniper, JFK and South Penn narrower and pedestrian friendlier, these streets will continue to act like a moat around Penn Sq.

It may work in a simulated world, but it is very tough to make this space functional in the real world.

Functionality aside, the aesthetics are nice.
I like the glass thingy. It reminds me of the pyramid in front of the Louvre.
And I like the idea of the ice skating rink. The river rink SUX!

I think a better idea would be a one-story glass office for Mayor Nutter.
It'd be cool to watch bums pee on it from the inside.

They got this thing outside of San Jose's city hall which is essentially the world's largest information desk (from what I've been told):

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My restlessness is my nemesis.

YES!!!

There needs to be more of this in our parks, so they can start supporting themselves.

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My restlessness is my nemesis.

Just about anything is better than that piece of crap poorly designed plaza that is there now.

But getting rid of the sunken areas and locking the concourse level down to paid-fare SEPTA passengers only is a SUPER good idea.

Keep the riff raff out of there and this will actually be a nice place to hang out.

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Don't forget:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spUJF...eature=related

No, it's really a knockoff of this:



Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. But I actually preferred the original concept which placed the glass cube/transit access to the north of the plaza.

Also, as a warning, look at the dirty and poorly maintained glass element that already exists at 1515 Market: