It's functional and we have more pressing needs.


Hell... dump the same money into making the concourse below more pleasant.

It's just an entrance. With such a low surrounding residential population it will always be just an entrance and only busy at rush.

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I don't know if the lack of residential surroundings are what keep Dillhole Plaza so unpleasant. There are plenty of popular public spaces in the city that are just as isolated. Logan Square and Love Park are surrounded mostly by government and office space, not condos and apartments. What sets them apart is that they are very well designed destination attractions. The problem with Dillworth isn't the plaza, or the need to redesign it, it's City Hall.

City Hall is a great resource we aren't taking advantage of. It should anchor the east end of the Parkway as significantly as the Art Museum anchors the west. It does architecturally, but once you get there it's nothing but concrete and closed doors. It's located at the intersection of two public transportation stops, in the heart of the business district, yet it's barren. Offering a couple of fountains and a small green to show movies isn't going to be the catalyst to get people there. It would be nice, but it won't make money.

An interest needs to be generated in the location. They could lease out space in the courtyard to Cosi, Marathon, Starbucks. Work with some of the historical societies to offer evening and weekend tours with volunteer tour guides. Once you've got the building generating some kind of tourism revenue and you've got more pedestrian life there, then it makes fisical sense to re-do the plaza and you'd actually have patrons that do more than pee in the fountains.

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The idealistic are no longer concerned with influencing public opinion and creating a free world of responsible and ethical social choices, but rather imposing opinion through legislation, mandating these ethics, and outlawing choice in what the loudest sample finds offensive.

Ban the Bans. It's a slippery slope between Idealism and Fascism.

Really, really stupid. Is this a move to somehow "spruce-up" City Hall and disregard the hundreds of thousands of acres in Philly that need help??? How about using your waterfront...there's a start...or expanding the Schuylkill river walk....activating another urban location?


The renderings are hopelessly optimistic: all of those people sitting on a nice green lawn. It will be trashed and muddy, and filled with homeless people sleeping there watching midnight movies. I like the idea of bringing Philadelphians together, but get realistic about the means (e.g., do it closer to residential districts or at least a place like Love Park where you have an activated hardscape).

...and why make the subway station worse????????

Yet again, failed priorities at becoming a world-class city. No one will use this, and it will be torn down in 10 years.

This post below is right on the money...

It's good to see us anti-Dilworths are growing in numbers.
That makes 3!

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My restlessness is my nemesis.

4.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xCiKCxfYqE

"If we can't learn from our mistakes, what's the point of making them!" ...my friend Richard.

"You are protected by the enormity of your stupidity." Mother to son Victor, in "Notorious"

I don't think this proposal is an attempt to spruce up City Hall, in fact I was suggesting ways City Hall could spruce itself up on it's own dime - leasing courtyard space to restaurants and/or cafes and allowing volunteers from the historical society to give evening and weekend tours. It's true, there are plenty of parts of the city that are in much more dire need than Dillworth Plaza - and naturally everyone assumes it's in their backyard. Nevertheless, City Hall is the center piece of this city and while this specific design for Dillworth Plaza has it's flaws and is something that should be revisited after you actually get tourists to City Hall, I'd hardly call trying to make a pleasant new public space in the middle of the city "stupid". I don't think these plans were drawn up as a proposal, I think the designer just wants to demonstrate what could be done with an unattractive concrete jungle, and also to stimulate a discussion from the public.

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The idealistic are no longer concerned with influencing public opinion and creating a free world of responsible and ethical social choices, but rather imposing opinion through legislation, mandating these ethics, and outlawing choice in what the loudest sample finds offensive.

Ban the Bans. It's a slippery slope between Idealism and Fascism.

given the 4 anti responses, I'm starting to think it is a really good idea. The poster who said the subway station woudl get worse obviously doesn't ride the subway, as this has nothing to do with the subway station. Most people don't exit via the City Hall concourse, which is abandoned, stinky, and somewhat creepy but they exit via the across the street, where they can transfer to buses or get to their destination without crossing the circle. the stations themselves are completely unrelated, although equally dingy. zur is against anything that benefits center city. his lines indicate, as noted above, he doesn't ride the subway. cover up the depressions, put in some grass and an ice skating rink in the winter. the plan calls for cafe space, that's also good. maybe a nice fountain in the middle of city hall. just opening the gates has brought more people through city hall (it's also remarkably cool in the porticos on a hot day). sell off MSB to generate some money and move the workers uptown where their presence will have a beneficial impact and perhaps save a building like the beury. I think you're right about city hall being the endpoint for the parkway. I also think it's important to note that the rest of the city is getting more attention, in the form of a 40% increase in park funding. I've heard reports that ballparks are even being fixed up. I do think that we should be reasonable about how much is spent on the dillhole design and the glass box is unnecessary. you can probably keep the current circular exit and add an elevator (ADA). It really isn't a very important transit entrance. Hgirl might be for this is it were part of the pcc expansion...which, in a few years may be incorporating city hall anyways.

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"You down wit OPM?"
Fumo: "Yeah, you know me!"

i don't know dude. I think I kinda agree with El's assertion.
City Hall Plaza is right at the heart of Philadelphia City Government.

As such, the area should be dramatically and made more modern.
A lot of times, City Hall Plaza is the first impression that visitors get when they think of Philly.

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"who pissed in your cheerios of life"?

Good lord, you can't read some days. Both zur and I have said that adding cafes to the plaza is a good thing, as well as cleaning it up, etc. But, some of the more fanciful plans are silly and there are entirely too many other things that need to be focused on. That's all.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xCiKCxfYqE

"If we can't learn from our mistakes, what's the point of making them!" ...my friend Richard.

"You are protected by the enormity of your stupidity." Mother to son Victor, in "Notorious"

Out of curiosity, was the $100 million spent of cleaning and restoring the exterior of City Hall wasted?