The Center City loop should catch the zoo as well as the Parkway. Then the trains can continue on to 30th street. We could have a Chicago-style loop run by PATCO where you could go clockwise or counterclockwise, utilizing the Ridge Ave subway, the Locust Street subway, and some new trackwork. A first step could be to extend the Locust Street subway to or beyond Rittenhouse Square, to prepare for an eventual and expensive tunnel under the Schuylkill. However, it is a travesty that there is no good way to get to the zoo - kids would absolutely love taking the train to get there. Driving there is presently a real drag, backing up the entire Expressway with people who can't get off the ramp to the parking lots. We recently had visitors from New Hampshire and the visiting kids enjoyed riding the train to and from the Star Wars exhibit more than they enjoyed the exhibit itself.

Just sort of a silly question ...

It would probably make things easier, but is there pretty much no possibility of SEPTA being able to control the PATCO with DRPA just giving them the money to manage and integrate it? Technically if they could just merge the two systems together, you think the sum would be greater than the parts.

Instead of SEPTA, they call it PMTA = Philadelphia Metro Transit Authority. NJ Transit would still control what it does. Maybe even break off the Regional Rail into its own group the same time.

PMTA is SEPTA buses, trolleys, subways and DRPA speedlines.
NJTransit is NJ buses and light rail on the Jersey side.
SEPRR is South Eastern Pennsylvania Regional Rail.

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I don't see the point in tunneling to the zoo just so kids have a good way to get there. A much cheaper way would be to use the PCC trolleys. Split the 15 at 40th and parkside, running the trolleys down 40th to lancaster and into the SS tunnel via the ten routing. You don't need any new infrastructure at all. the zoo itself doesn't justify a subway.
yes, it makes sense. If it's part of the PATCO deal, you coudl select the option to run the SS down market which woudl provide a transfer place between PATCO/El/BSL/SS two blocks from market east station. If you've extended the BSL down to the NY, the city needs to concentrate on the NW and NE.

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Ha, el, I'm surprised you even remember my hatred of 8th St station. I haven't ranted about it a while.

Raider, I think we've started telepathy since we became Facebook friends. I have also long wondered why the DRPA couldn't just pay SEPTA to operate PATCO. And strangely enough, I've also thought SEPTA should be renamed - with the exact same acronym you just used above. Phila Metro Trans Authority. Psychic!

Billyross. It does kind of suck that the Zoo is hard to reach by train, but I agree that it doesn't come close to warranting its own subway, especially since the 15 trolley goes pretty close. If there is any cultural location egregiously ignored by rail service, it's the Art Museum. Note that the Thunda Plan provides subway stops to both it and the Franklin Institute, two of Philly's largest draws.

Haha that is funny.

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You just screwed all the suburbs out of their transit..It is why SEPTA stands for Southeastern PA...

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TAFKATLB(TheArtistFormerlyKnowAsTheLoveBelow)

I never said to dig a tunnel merely to serve the zoo. The new tunnel would get PATCO's existing line to 30th Street, and would be the last piece of the puzzle. The zoo service would use the existing Pennsylvania bridge and would access said bridge via the existing tunnel under Pennsylvania Avenue after stopping at the Art Museum, probably at Fairmount and Pennsylvania Avenues. Once the tunnel is complete, instead of reversing direction at 30th Street, the train would simply continue back to NJ via Rittenhouse Square.

NJ Transit should take over the R7 Trenton Line, with some sort of fare-sharing arrangement, and then we can have one-seat commuter rail to Penn Station. At the same time NJT can take over the operation of PATCO. NJT already serves 30th Street, so it would be merely be augmentation of service already provided.

How did they get screwed out of their transit? I didn't say to remove any lines or service. I only offered a reorganization of the controlling organizations and which assets they control.

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what bridge and how would it use it? Why is a center city loop more important than connecting heavily populated areas of the city? I still think the zoo is served well enough by breaking the 15, which would also give Fairmount/Brewerytown a connection with Drexel/Penn and 30th St. you mean like the clockers? a route that died because Amtrak and NJT couldn't agree on anything. Still, the basic idea is good. the main issue being that you now have three agencies doing what one private company used to do. All three are heeavily subsidized (although Amtrak does earn operating profits on the route). If economic development were the goal, I always thought that PA should work with Amtrak to offer lower monthly fares on the Keystone service.Still, DE pays SEPTA to run to Wilmington and Newark so SEPTA coudl pay NJT to do the same.
Raider, it's worth noting that PATH is also independently operated. Not that it makes the idea of merging PATCO with SEPTA a bad one.

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Portland is often cited as an example of a city with strong land use planning controls;[6] This is largely the result of statewide land conservation policies adopted in 1973 under Governor Tom McCall, in particular the requirement for an urban growth boundary (UGB) for every city and metropolitan area. The opposite extreme, a city with few or no controls, is typically illustrated by Houston, Texas.
Portland's urban growth boundary, adopted in 1979, separates urban areas (where high-density development is encouraged and focused) from traditional farm land (where restrictions on non-agricultural development are very strict).[13] This was atypical in an era when automobile use led many areas to neglect their core cities in favor of development along interstate highways, in suburbs, and satellite cities.






Main article: Transportation in Portland, Oregon
The Portland metropolitan area has the typical transportation services common to major U.S. cities, though Oregon's emphasis on proactive land-use planning and transit-oriented development within the urban growth boundary means that commuters have multiple well-developed options.
TriMet operates most of the region's buses and the MAX (short for Metropolitan Area Express) light rail system, which connects the city and suburbs. 5th and 6th avenues used to be the Portland Transit Mall, devoted primarily to bus traffic with limited automobile access, running north/south through downtown. During construction of the new Portland Transit Mall, which will include light rail, buses have been moved to 3rd and 4th avenues, and 5th and 6th avenues have been closed for construction between Northwest Hoyt Street and about Southwest Clay.









Is how you actually do it right

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