I'm not sure how useful this is. It's disturbing that the map doesn't contain the proposed Navy Yard extension of the BSL. If the extension is built, it woudl be far more useful in getting to the Navy Yard than the PATCO version. If it does get built, I don't see the PATCO extension ever getting funding. they'd eb better off consolidating 11th/12th and 15th into one seamless transfer to the Broad St line and moving the last stop to Rittenhouse sq. I'm going to go with Alt P2 as being the most useful in terms of long term benefit (it gives a one seat ride to the exsting Subway Surface riders to all of market st and allows for the expansion of Subway surface to other areas of Philadelphia. Alt PA-1 Extended is a second. Still, asfor transit projects, I hope to see the city get behind the navy yard extension of the BSL. Another project I wouldn't mind seeing is to wall off Race-Vine making it a locals only stop and making Cecil B an express stop. And,of course, a NE subway.

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"You down wit OPM?"
Fumo: "Yeah, you know me!"

True, but as I read that map, PATCO has no plans to complete the never-finished, never-used underground trolley terminal right next to Franklin Square station. Note that the PA-1 Extended alignment has the trolleys surfacing near 9th and Cherry, and that the trolley loop is around Franklin Square itself, which would place it atop the rapid transit station; the trolley terminal lies beneath the semicircular plaza at the BFB west landing.

My guess is that either PATCO would want to run this service with SEPTA or have SEPTA run it on PATCO's behalf, thus saving on vehicle acquisition and storage, as the cars would reside at the existing Elmwood and Callowhill depots. PA-1 Extended and PA-2 offer this possibility, whereas PA-1 without the extension and PA-3 do not unless some sort of track connection with the Route 15 is added.

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Sandy Smith, Exile on Market Street, Philadelphia
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." --Mark Twain, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court

Sandy do you have any diagrams for this trolley tunnel/loop? I didn't know there was a loop under there, is it similar to the one used to loop around City Hall?


Is this also part of the same abandoned tunnel that's by the Greyhound terminal along Arch Street?

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Don't forget:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spUJF...eature=related

AFAIK, there are no track diagrams for the trolley tunnel, for no tracks ever led into it.

Early architects' drawings of the Ben Franklin Bridge, some of which I have seen but can't recall where right now, depict a cross-section at the anchorages with four tracks and five vehicluar travel lanes -- the two tracks outboard of the main deck were to carry rapid transit, as they do now, and the two on the edges of the road deck were to carry trolley tracks.

If you sit on the left side of a PATCO train and look to your left as the train passes through the anchorages, you will see a small platform and staircase opening between your train and the road deck. This was to have been the platform for the trolley stations in the anchorages -- each has one. The waiting room is located one level down inside the anchorage, and elevators on each side in each anchorage connect this waiting room to both the ground level and the pedestrian walkways two levels up. I've heard from people who have been inside them that the stations are very handsome and richly appointed. The last time any member of the general public saw the inside of them was on the bridge's 75th anniversary in 2001, when the bridge was closed to traffic for an entire Sunday morning for displays and tours, including tours of the anchorages. I got there too late to go on one.

That event may also have been the first time members of the general public got to see the stations, for they were never used -- the Public Service streetcar network in Camden was never extended across the bridge and shut down completely in 1932, four years before Bridge Line rapid transit service began operating from Broadway in Camden to 8th and Market in Philadelphia.

The abandoned tunnel in the 1300 (IIRC) block of Arch Street was part of a loop subway called for in the 1913 (A. Merritt Taylor) Department of City Transit rapid transit plan. The loop subway would have served as a collector/distributor for the Broad Street trunk line and run beneath Arch, 8th, Locust and Broad streets. Work on the loop ceased shortly after the initial contracts were let in 1915 and never resumed in its intended form; the Locust and 8th Street legs of the loop were eventually completed to carry Bridge Line trains and a spur of the Broad Street Subway.

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Sandy Smith, Exile on Market Street, Philadelphia
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." --Mark Twain, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court

These might be the images you're thinking of (I posted them in the Philly Photos-Ben Franklin Bridge - thread).

http://www.phillyblog.com/philly/phi...tml#post759671

Yes, those are the drawings I had in mind.

I see I had the number of motor vehicle lanes off; I forgot that cars and trucks were narrower back in the early decades of this century.

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Sandy Smith, Exile on Market Street, Philadelphia
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." --Mark Twain, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court

Those are also images for the proposed bridge, so I don't think everything is quite the way it ended up being built (for instance, the walkway is partially over the train tracks, which isn't shown that way in the images).

I see Plan Philly has gotten interested in the PATCO expansion. Images:
NJ

PA

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This, this, this, and this are my new favorite things.

These two, not so much.

interesting...

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TAFKATLB(TheArtistFormerlyKnowAsTheLoveBelow)

It's my impression from what I've heard that funding is available for the NJ expansion.

It's the PA expansion that is bogging it down.

In a perfect world they would nix the PA expansion and build the NJ one.

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My restlessness is my nemesis.