Looks like there might be a Patco expansion in the works. Check it out:

http://www.patcopaexpansion.com/

That map is for the Trolley that PATCO wants to run down the waterfront. Nice Map too...


Totally different then the train plans. But they also got that stuff, somewhere....It'll go to 30th St station...

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ermm if you look at the web site, the info on there is pretty much the same as what was provided to the OP way back in late 2004, almost 4 years ago. They haven't moved on it. The 3 alternatives still remain, and they haven't narrowed it down to the locally preffered alternative phase, which is when they would be ready to present the whole thing to FTA for the go-ahead and federal funding. Their web site does note that they are "refining" the 3 alternatives and that 2 more public forums are scheduled, one in June and another in November of this year. Perhaps after that, they will be ready to finalize an alternative.

I prefer the PA-1 alternative; the PA-1 extended is okay, but PA-1 needs to get built, and it should extend out to the Naval Business Center (where Urban Outfitters HQ is).

I don't quite understand the need to build another line (and Alt PA-1) to Franklin Sq and then to also have a loop around the square. If they want a connection with existing PATCO line, all they have to do is build a new station on the existing line right where it would intersect their proposed river line; the station would be bi-level or what have you in order to make the connection but it would still be cheaper than to build more tracks right next to the existing PATCO line!


The Alt PA-2 seems like the least-expensive and also least useful of the alternatives, so am hoping that's not the one that passes thru.

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5/22, because i'm feeling punny:
As the great Jedi English teacher was quoted in saying, "metaphors be with you."

My friend was working on a study a year ago regarding which configuration makes the most sense, and he is now high up in Nutter's transportation department; I will ask him what is up when I see him. Franklin Square used to be Philly's skid row, and has turned around dramatically in the last few years. I think that the area could now support reopening the stop under the square.

It seems that PATCO will definitely build at least one line over in Jersey, and maybe another one in Philly too. I am looking forward to seeing something move forward. There is also a study out investigating extending the Broad Street Subway to the Navy Yard. Logically, it should terminate near where the riverfront trolley eventually terminates, so that they both serve the Navy Yard, but maybe along different routes to avoid duplication.

Neil, that is what i took from this too...the level of detail that they took shows something.

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This is good news. Maybe if it gets okay'd someone could convince patco that rather than a trolley it makes more sense for a subway/surface line.

I would love it if they open up the Frankin Square station again.

I would assume they would go the trolley/above ground route because it would be significantly cheaper to do.

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Alt 2 is quite expensive. lol.

They would have to tunnel through below Market st to the river so the Trolleys(the SEPTA Subway Surface Line cars) can continue down Market St from the 13th st loop....or they could make a portal somewhere around the loop at 13th st and the trolleys goes street side down Market St to the river.

Either way, Alt 2 is not the cheaper route for them to go. Unless of course the partnered with SEPTa, but SEPTA hasn't said much. So Alt 1 is the one I'd place money on.

And on Why they looped the trolleys around Franklin Square, it is because inside of the Ben Franklin Bridge is the original Trolley station that existed since the creation of the bridge. It is right under Franklin Square! So pretty much that will probably be they will store the trolleys, of course, if they don't use SEPTA K-Cars(Which explains the Alt 1 expiation goes to 13th st).


And it will go to the Navy Yard one day, specially with Tastykake moving there...Just maybe not when they get it stated.

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okay, cool. I knew there had to be some reason to have that sort of alignment.

Tunneling under one of the busiest streets in Philly will be expensive...tunneling itself is expensive. But that route looks smaller than the Alt-1, and I think Alt-1 will be more useful, so I hope that's the one that gets forwarded to FTA for funding because that's the agency that will need the most convincing.

__________________
New term of the day 1/24:
Electile Dysfunction: The inability to become aroused over any of the choices for President put forth by either of only parties in the 2008 election year.
http://www.votenader.org/index.html


5/22, because i'm feeling punny:
As the great Jedi English teacher was quoted in saying, "metaphors be with you."