Hey yall,

After returning from a recent trip to Europe (prague, budapest, vienna), i realized i really really miss the streets that have been turn into, or perhaps always were, pedestrian only streets.

Any thoughts on writing a letter/petition to get a couple of streets in old city turned in pedestrian only streets?

Think of the amount of outdoor seating the restaurants could have, the even more fun drunken stumbles without the fear of cars, and the added room allowing for the addition of trees, street bands, and so on.

What does everyone think?

I think its a smart move that will only increase our well being and the restuarants business. I mean, we seriously lack good outdoor seating, the only solution seems to be able to give up some of out streets for it.

And driving cars down there anytime after 7 or 8 is a joke anyway, you can walk faster.

I'll quit before i start ranting.


Thanks,

Tom

Prediction: Chestnut Street will come up in the next few posts.

I happen to agree with you. Others won't.

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I thought abut this before but it was Market St from third street over and on Fridays and Saturdays Only.

It's horrible, specially when the El Night Owl has to get to 2nd St. it takes 10-20 mins to go from 5th to 2nd st! I think SEPTA should just skip that stop and just go right up 3rd St.

But then this closing of second street woudl jsut gum up 3rd street even more. So then I guess 5th st could work.

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It might be a great idea. It could improve on Old City's status as a 'destination,' especially for tourists. Less late-night, drunken traffic would be safer, and maybe even a little quieter for residents (no cars around to blast music into the wee hours).

A few things to consider, though:

- More cops would be needed to patrol a more spread-out, people-congested area.
- Morning cleanup would have to extend to the streets.
- Street bands would have to be acoustic and no drums, because of noise restrictions.
- Parking lot and garages on 2nd St. (there are four I can think of) will lose a lot of business.

It would probably work best on the block of 2nd between Market & Chestnut (and no, Count, this is not the kind of Chestnut Street mention you anticipated). But it's true that the proprietors of that garage on Chestnut might be none too happy. On the other hand, they do have an entrance off Letitia Street, if I'm not mistaken.

I like it, and there is an American precedent for it, too - Mulberry Street in NYC.

So like..

those restaurants will survive with just people who live within walking distance?




It doesn't work. We don't have the transit or density to have car-less blocks of retail/dining.


You live near it. the other 5 million in the area that "give" us Center City can't walk..



It's hard to explain but in Europe it's a differennt layout, density, scale, etc.


Only cities that seem to be able to swing anything close in the us has geographic layouts that force high density (Manhattan, San Fran for example)


In Philly the block/s would just die and another block would just become the next "spot"


You can see it here. It's the difference between Chestnut and Walnut. One spent a bunch of years without thousands of people going down it.

Can you guess which one it was?




and for people who post pics of smaller cites that have them...that "plaza" is usually the ONLY game it that town.


They close 2nd to traffic... watch all the other blocks pick up the slack..


It's kinda happening already...2nd's looking a little worse for wear ...and they do close it now at 12.

Now you have large crowds of drunks able to congregate.

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Well...sort of. It's still open for cars leaving the parking lots. And it doesn't look like it's a regular thing (I have a good view of 2nd Street from my home).

My initial reaction is that at later hours of the night, I would try to stay off a street that did not have any car traffic going by.

If there are lots of people around, great. But if everyone is mostly inside (like winter) and there's no possibility of any car traffic, scumbags won't need rocket science to figure out where the marks will be (leaving the bar and walking on an empty street?).

Just my initial thoughts. Maybe there are enough people around all night that it won't be an issue.

I've been to what I would describe as pub districts in Germany where all the streets are closed and it's great, but if the culture of Germany were the same as here, there's no way I'd even consider walking around there.

Mulberry only (relatively) recently is a pedestrian zone in summer weekend nights. I think 2nd would end up more like Bourbon St. in New Orleans. (Good or bad, depending on your personal taste. )

I'd like to see some daytime pedestrian zones. The problem is these are essentially uncovered shopping malls, and you can't create them where there's no businesses already. What about 10th between Arch and Race (weekends, Chinatown) or 9th (Sat mornings, Italian Market)?

I agree with this wholeheartedly and would render zur's point moot. it woudl cripple the parking garage but it coudl be replaced with apartments. that garage is a dump (the one south of chestnut is PPA owned and is actually quite nice). I think blocking market could be a disaster though.
SEPTA's problem would be easily solved by extending service two hours on Friday and Saturday. It ocudl be partially paid for by using buses until 7:15 on Sunday morning and, perhaps, 6:30 on Saturdays. If they clean the urine stench out of the subway and make people feel comfortable parking in Frankford praking garage (well lit), you might even get some Nor'easters like zur to take the el down to old city.

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