The suburbanites wouldn't go visit our stadiums if they were located in the city neighborhoods, unless it was sitting in someplace fancypants area like Roxy/Manyunk where you can have enough trees to seperate you from the fugly city.

The stadiums complex seems far enough removed from our city [as in our city life/environment.... the stadium area is a wasteland] to most people blowing through on 95--that no one second guesses going there [unlike where the Pearl is].

If the Linc was in North Philly--then well--who wants to get shot and mugged on the way from the parking lot to the ticket booths?

Yea, and before you jump on me for making that remark--think what the suburbanites (who fill our stadiums--they're the ones who snap up all the season passes) think... and what comes out of their mouth will be even worse that what just came out of mine.

Delaware Ave is a dump. It was revived as a nightclub area for a very short while, but then it died again. Now we are trying to revitalize an area that is basically not good for anything other than being a strip center mecca because the way the freeway is designed. Mind you, the photos shown in previous posts have parkways seperating the riverfront from the adjoining city.

We have an elevated limited access critical interstate which carries the highest traffic load in the entire country, and next do that a parkway butted next to it.

So unless you put something REALLY good on the other side, which is only one city block wide in spots, make it visible from the freeway so people will want to exit, and it's not a nightmare to get in and out of if/when you want to go, then what'd you expect?

Somehow slots parlors just don't work. A casino (hint: resorts) strip would come "close enough", since it will have enough attraction to the residents living next door, and if transit really worked here, you'd see pedestrian activity. [It is possible to easily get in and out of this area with a bicycle... just not on foot].

When I look at what's already slated to be built and what's in progress--$400-$700K condos [W-front towers], a medium grade slots parlor, a D&B, a Sheraton, rental, another hotel, and then another medium/low grade slots parlor.... the slots parlors just look like a drag. If we had higher end casinos (and hopefully they will morph into that with some legislation changes), and more hotel space, and a subway/el connection--that area wouldn't be so bad.

In fact, it would probably be a bigger/badder/better attraction to most people than Old City [hmm... if Penns Landing sucks up all the nightlife, would OC die?]

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WHYY pays their CEO $750,000 a year. So WHYY should I renew my membership? Seems they have no problems finding money and spending it unwisely.


And this is why you should donate to PACCA, not PETA:

In September, PETA made headlines in Vermont and across the nation for asking Ben & Jerry's ice cream to use human breast milk in their ice cream, instead of cow milk

where are the abandoned warehouses in northern liberties? what block? where are the people in that picture?
since when did roxborough become a fancypants area of the city? people woudl go see the eagles anywhere.

if the eagles were in north philly, you wouldn't get shot and mugged. someone might actually care what is happening up there.







no, that's ludicrous. did fell's point die after inner harbor became the center of cheese nightlife? no, it changed.

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Actually, no. The SBC Center (I think it's now changed to the AT&T Center], is surrounded by an industrial facilitiy on one side, a barrio behind it, and another lower middle class and crime ridden (drive-by shooting) neighborhood. People flood in and out of the AT&T Center's parking lot, but they never step one foot off of it... unless they're driving around looking to see what houses are "renting out" their driveways for a Spurs gane---and I've been guilty many times of doing that. Didn't feel quite "safe" going to-fro, but the area didn't change after the stadiums arrived... not one bit.

Stadiums have an uncanny knack for not changing their environments at all. They don't kickstart any change in the surrounding environ. That is probably why their best location in all of Philadelphia is where they are right now. That area can handle the traffic load fairly well, even when there are multiple games going on at once (NBA + NHL on the same night, for instance, or a Phils game plus a concert).

People with $$$ on hand or have $$$ income drive gentrifcation around them. One of the wards of Houston is already feeling this pressue because it is so close to Montrose which is the gay district and has uber-rich high rises chok full of people making more than $100K salaries. You think the ghetto next door is going to hold on to their property when they can sell their homes and make double, triple their original investment? Nope.

That's the secret behind gentrification. People sell and leave because market forces are working. A big single-investor stadium doesn't do squat.

Probably so. It's just an open-ended question, didn't really require a retort. OC might not change at all, or there would be nightlife/daylife competition between the two places since they are so close to each other.

Either way, if there's some way to connect the city to Penn's Landing somehow---we might get retail that doesn't close up shop at 6:30 and stays open later. I would love it if a mega casino operator bought out PREIT's interest in The Gallery and started to do some work on it---free shuttles from the resorts to The Gallery shopping---connect all the entertainment options together. That would be cool.

As for Inner Harbor... you take a couple of wrong turns going in and out of there... BOOM you're in the badlands. I've made that mistake every time I've driven to Baltimore [I should read maps more often]. I know what's safe to drive through and what isn't here, and what times of day, but not down there.

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WHYY pays their CEO $750,000 a year. So WHYY should I renew my membership? Seems they have no problems finding money and spending it unwisely.


And this is why you should donate to PACCA, not PETA:

In September, PETA made headlines in Vermont and across the nation for asking Ben & Jerry's ice cream to use human breast milk in their ice cream, instead of cow milk

cept in baltimore. sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. However, your point was that people wouldn;t go. even in San Antonio they still go.
have you actually been down there when there are multiple events? I think not since you think the traffic load is handled fairly well. it's a nightmare and one of the reasons SEPTA's half assed attempt at an express has done pretty well. had the stadium been at 30th st, SEPTA ridership to games woudl be MUCH higher.


if I were a casino operator I would want to build my own captive mall not run shuttles.
you're never more than a coupel fo turns from a bad neighborhood in baltimore (not unlike philly, only more so). the point was that the inner harbor didn't kill fell's point, only changed it. For all the planning that has gone on in baltimore (NIMBY's have far less power there and the city does whatever the hell it wants) it took a renewed interest in urban life to turn things around. Last time I was down there I actually felt safe walking from the inner harbor to little italy (through what is now called harbor east). but that's all besides the point.

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Not quite sure how to put this...NIMBY

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Free hat

I've had to drive on 95 when there's been multiple events. It's not that bad. However, if there is a car crash, it will backup everything from Fishtown to the airport. I have been stuck in that nightmare before---the last time I had to pee in a Gatorade bottle I thought I was going to develop UTI or something. Pennsylvania traffic planners never heard of rest stops before seems like.

There is the rub. The state owns the lots. Foxwoods lot is adjacent to properties aleady in use, SugarHouse could buy up land and hope to woo city officials for zoning changes. Both establishments are trying to get more riparian rights---hopefully in an effort to drive in weight piles so they could erect such facilities, at what is likely to be an enormous cost. The Gallery isn't that far away though, and it might seem more inviting for the Godivas and ECHOs of the world to move in there--assuming that the casino population is going to spread further than just Delaware Avenue.

I got news fo the city---the casinos are likely going to encourage more parking garage construction to happen close to Front Street. Bet you $100 after the casinos are in business that we're going to hear about parking garage construction. Those lots are water logged, eldondre... you can't dig more than 2 stories underground without getting into serious problems that will require building a "bathtub".

It's been about 2 years for me. The mall in the inner harbor was pretty good from what I remember... where ours gets 1/2 a star, theirs would get a 3.

Baltimore is DC's back office complex. All the drudgery work in Federal Government happens in the Balti area, so the city is littered with plenty of people getting their money from GSA contracts (and yeah, there's a lot of poor people, too... we just don't have as much federal payola as they do).

__________________
WHYY pays their CEO $750,000 a year. So WHYY should I renew my membership? Seems they have no problems finding money and spending it unwisely.


And this is why you should donate to PACCA, not PETA:

In September, PETA made headlines in Vermont and across the nation for asking Ben & Jerry's ice cream to use human breast milk in their ice cream, instead of cow milk

95 isn't the problem, it's getting from the highway to the stadiums and back but because it's a two or three seat ride on SEPTA, many people don't use it. 30th St would have alleviated a lot of these issues. let's face it, they are in south philly because no one wanted them in their backyard not because it was the best place.



that's an oversimplification. Baltimore is a struggling city (more so than Philly since it gets overlooked more than Philly does) but it is a regional banking and financial center. Maryland, the state, does have a lot of federal money (defense, etc) but that tips the balance of power away from Baltimore. Philadelphia is in a much better situation. It has better transit, a healthier budget, already taken concrete steps towards fixing its schools...and is close to nyc which is a bigger draw than being close to DC. It has stronger traditions, a better newspaper, and a much healthier downtown ( much of baltimore's revitalization has heretofore occurred outside of downtown).

__________________
"You down wit OPM?"
Fumo: "Yeah, you know me!"

The way the tunnels and stations are configured, it's not a simple transfer either. It's also pretty nasty down in the un-refurbished part of the concourse... so transferring from Suburban to the BSL is rather a "shock" to a lot of folks who start off with SEPTA on the Regional Rail system, then transfer to a City Transit vehicle for the first time and realize how awful the experience is.

Outer Baltimore is stuffed to the hilt with consulting businesses, contractors and the like. But you are right about downtown--it is still dead and it isn't a desirable place to live. When I moved to Philadelphia, my Texas job required me to travel to Balti regularly. I originally refused to work in Baltimore when I moved up here, that's why I am here now [I knew how much most of it sucked 3 yrs ago, and I wasn't too sure about the areas where I was looking at houses, so I chose to rent here and keep looking, and then I just got too "busy" and remained in the same spot!]

Downtown Philadelphia, however is one of the most desirable places within the city to live. It's popular. People in the other parts of town are jealous of it, with abandoned storefronts and all!

The sqft. prices for housing in the downtown zip codes are proof.

__________________
WHYY pays their CEO $750,000 a year. So WHYY should I renew my membership? Seems they have no problems finding money and spending it unwisely.


And this is why you should donate to PACCA, not PETA:

In September, PETA made headlines in Vermont and across the nation for asking Ben & Jerry's ice cream to use human breast milk in their ice cream, instead of cow milk

Perhaps Baltimore county (the city is only part of the county).



absolutely, rittenhouse has more cache than chestnut hill.

__________________
"You down wit OPM?"
Fumo: "Yeah, you know me!"

What problems do the strip clubs cause that would warrant them being moved? And when did the city buy them so that they would be able to move them? Not to mention, I wouldn't exactly call S. Delaware Ave. across from Walmart a residential area.

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. -George Carlin