I'm looking for a house with my wife, and we're finding the housing stock available to be a crapshoot. We don't want to live in a condo, a rowhouse would be fine if they weren't so expensive -- seems only 2 story and far away from center city are affordable.

We looked and found Westrum is building new townhouses by the sports complex, but I'm concerned about Sunoco being right there.

Other than this one Westrum development, the only other new construction we have seen costs over 400,000, most much more. Why is there no affordable housing otherwise?

I don't want to commute very far, and would prefer to take public transportation. Does anyone know of any new housing projects that are affordable and in the city??

Please clarify 'affordable' <$300k?

You can find nice places in S. NJ under $200k, and they are minuted from center city. I lived in a sweet 1300sqft/2 br/garage townhome in a nicely detailed development called Riverfront at Palmyra. It took 10-15 minutes to get downtown. 1 minute to NE Philly as it was set at the base of the Tacony/Palmyra bridge. The NJ light rail is a 15 minute walk, all the essentials are <10min drive.




There is a ghetto part of Palmyra, but the residents do not mess with the nicer homes in Palmyra and Riverton. It is very safe, and the river views are great. My place was ~6 years old, and I sold it in '03 for 175k. Taxes were high ($3,800) and car insurance was about the same as I pay in Phila.

Of course, you have to deal with the cookie cutter styling
http://www.celicasupra.com/tmp/cookiecutter.jpg

http://riverfrontatpalmyra.com/river...side_frame.asp

That's basically correct- Center City drives up prices - near broad, row homes go for $260,000 plus - it's really location, location, location.

There aren't many row homes in Center City because they have been demolished over time- By expanding industries along the waterfront,
by the big commercial boom along Market street post Civil War.

Then building the Ben Franklin Bridge wiped out a good sized chunk of the real estate for the bridge and road footprint. On the other side of town, clearing a block wide sight line from City Hall to Fairmount Hill for the Ben Franklin Parkway cleard out a few more neighborhoods. I-95 cleared out a huge area, building Independance Mall cleared out several more blocks of historic townhomes, I-76 thinned out a few more.

Basically, people have been demolishing row homes for businesses, roads,
plazas, skyscrapers etc- so those few that are left are quite valuable.


Labor cost more
Basically, all the studies say it's simply because it costs more to build in Philly- mostly blamed on union labor that adds about 30% to home prices
(if that's off, there's something in the Inquirer about 6 months ago?)

Land and planning cost more.
There are more development restrictions in Philly- Phillly City Hall is totally different from most local government. Dealing with City Hall government has the distant and detached feeling of dealing with state government in Harrisburg. It's harder, so it takes longer, and costs more.

Because of all the markup, there's no incentive to build for 'average' or low income housing- PHA has a habit (or a single well publicized event according to others) of planning for one type of housing and building a lower type- Thus, neighbors generally have a choice- low income/ subsidized housing and section 8, or high income townhomes.
Rationally, the neighbors want the high priced condos.

Used cars and Used Homes.
Usually, the main pool of middle income housing is from existing homes.
And upper income homes are new homes. Building new is very expensive, so it tends to be high end. Just like cars, most people's first home is "used", just like their first car is used. There are generally the same pressures to buying a low priced new car as there are in buying an equivilently priced used car.

Well, there's not much drive to build affordable housing- new places are going up in Manayunk, the Naval Home, downtown Conversions, new placs in Fishtown/Northern Liberties, lots of new Building in the art museum area-

I'll look around, I'll let you know what I find.

Hal

Well, what's affordable?

I checked today - 287 homes listed for sale in Philly that are categorized as "New Construction"

There are 2 new homes under $50,000 but those are actually shells or
repairs to old homes- one of the greatest problems with

That leaves

10 new homes in the $100,000s

31 new homes in the $200,000s

62 in the $300,000s

40 in the $400,000s

and 143 in the $500,000 and up.

Basically, you're not seeing affordable housing because the higher end
homes are so much more common.

You're most likely to see that which is most common.

Hal

I live off Broad and Oregon. Subway and many buses. Delis and supermarkets. Marconi Plaza. Short walk to the stadiums. $8 taxi ride to Center City. Clean, safer then any neighborhood in Philly. 3BR homes are going for under $150k. Sorry, but all you "urban pioneers" who pay out the butt to live in cruddy, crime riddle neighborhoods are wasting money. You can find good housing in Philly. Do not get me wrong, there are some newer houses in South Philly going to $400k. For that money I can move to Ocean City and be 100 yards from the beach! Good housing is hard to find, but it does exist.

actually, ubran pioneers are helping to make this city nicer overall instead of cowering in a fortress. I agree that your area is great but not with the rest of your assertions. and be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

I did not say urban pioneers do not make the city nicer. I think they do. I am just saying that many overpay for barely average houses in not so good neighborhoods. In time prices rise, the blue collar families and minorites move out, and you are stuck with another neighborhood in the Starbucks Nation. Does not effect me or anything in my life so I really do not care. If I am wealthy enough to buy a home for $300k, it will be within ear shot of ocean waves. To each their own.

I wouldn't be concerned about the Sunoco site nearby Westrum's S. Phila homes at 20th and Pattison----you're not near enough to it....you can check w/ them about it---those should be good homes.

I think Westrum is also looking at building at 30th & Girard----maybe some single family homes there, too.

Some new homes going up around 7th and Jackson?? near old hospital Mt Sanai....

Good luck----I think new city homes will hold value, even if not appreciating rapidly...

__________________
SPM

what could help philadelphia real estate in the event of a downturn is continued interest itn the area. that is, if people keep moving in, prices will at least remain somewhat stable.
30th and girard, good news. I have high hopes for girard if it doesn't become a strip mall first.

What would be better would be if we had more even investment in
Philly, rather than a spike of high value in Center City surrounded by a perimeter of blighted neighborhoods. Property value in Philly can be roughly tracked by the height of the buildings on it, the Philly skyline is a good measure of value- central peaks surrounded by depressed area, then a return to a low average.

I've seen that same pattern in college -peak, depressed area, flat area-
I'm kinda surprised I remember it from advanced organic chemistry courses but - a it's a classic S-orbital from molecular orbital theory-
Niehls Borh and basic quantum theory about electrons moving back and forth around the atom.

In english that means that the laws of physics and probabilty make electrons "commute" back and forth around the atomic nucleus in a predictable way.

Stastitics says that random electrons move in a predictable way.
Quantum theory says that electrons take all possible paths and order themselves into concentric shells. What you actually see it the most likely pattern, that is the the most stable commuting pattern.

Adding more 'commuting' electrons forces the atomic orbital's normally uniform probability value to re-arrange into a distorted molecular orbital with shells of high and low probability value.

By analogy, that means statistics should also predict that adding more and more concentration of density -but only to Center City- will distort normally uniform property values and re-arrange Philly into bands of high and low property value.

In simplest terms, adding growth only to the centeral spike should result in more and deeper bands of blight and fewer more focused peaks of affluence, with little in between.



Well, here's a start on how to change that-


On March 11, 2004 at 6:00 pm, Philadelphia City Planning Commission
will be hosting a Public Outreach meeting to alliow representatives from City and government Agencies, business, design and advocacy groups, and neighborhood organizations to meet and discuss current drawbacks of the code and possible recommendations
. . .
focusing specifically on three commercial corridors including Frankford Avenue, Girard Avenue and Market Street.