I attending the public hearing suggested by Hal, and actually looked for someone wearing a sticker with that name, since I noticed a "Hal something" on the sign in sheet. Sorry I didn't run into you since you are very knowledgeable about so many Philly issues.

At the meeting, I learned a lot and was encouraged in hearing that the city is thinking ahead with regard to commercial development opportunities in the 3 corridors (Girard b/t Fairmount Park and the river, Frankford Ave near the el, and Chestnut St out in W. Philly). What really impressed me is that the city hired outside consultants to get objective opinions on these matters. That means there is real concern for positive changes.

One thing that I found interesting is that the city approves 90% of applications for new businesses, without paying any detailed attention to site planning. This means that companies are able to get away with building structures that are out-of-place for the neighborhoods they end up in, and that the pedestrian life on these corridors is degraded by this lack of attention by the city. It was noted that in these cases, the blame, if it can be called that, rests mostly on the neighborhoods for not having a coherent voice when public hearings were held regarding new commercial development.

The lesson I learned is to remain aware of the issues affecting the neighborhoods you live in (or want to buy a house in). Since I'm in the market for a house, I want to get as much information about my potential new home beforehand.

I didn't get down to the meeting until almost 6:30, so I was one of the guys who got there just after the presentation ended -

Yes, it seems that the idea is to do 3 steps.

1) identify the hodgepoge of many different zoning classifications along
these commecial corridors

2) reason through what kind of changes or overlays would promote successfull corridors

3) impliment the changes or suggestions identified in 1 & 2.

I'm also glad that the City Planning brought in somebody for 1 & 2,
but I'll hold off until the fat lady sings and they actually enact the changes.


Actually, I don't think that fast turnaround or a high approval rating is necessarily a problem - you actually WANT fast implimentation, but fast implimentation of a good plan.

[quote]It was noted that in these cases, the blame, if it can be called that, rests mostly on the neighborhoods for not having a coherent voice when public hearings were held regarding new commercial development.[/quote

That's something that I disagree with- especially in the context of zoning hearings which are difficult for the average person to attend-

In the suburbs, zoning hearings are held in the evening, usually around 7:00 pm in the local township building, which is generally 15 minutes away from everyone.

In Philly, zoning hearings are downtown, usually around 10 am.
You have to take a day off of work, and go downtown to be heard.
Public hearings in the middle of the work day almost guarantee that only the people promoting a plan will go through all the hurdles to have their voice heard.


I REALLY think that the zoning hearings should be moved to the local district where the zoing change is being proposed - either to a local councilman's office, or a local school etc-

Hal

hal, please run for mayor.


with the exception of the historical commission of course.

Well, here's the hard economics -

Building in Philly means that if the market rate is $10
Philly will be cost $13 to $14


So, no wonder MTv dumped the carpenters union.

If the market rate for a carpenter to do framing in the areas just outside the city is $5,665, going to a union job,
you're going to pay that $5,665 which is the fair value of the work, then you pay another $11,300 for what?


Well, that's why nothing's afordable. 100% and 200% price differences
will tend to do that.

Lets see some real numbers for just one subcontractor-

If the Seaman's Curchis 6,616 square feet of space, and assuming they're rehabbig that space just like a normal house:

The guys from outside Philly should cost about $17,933 to do the job.

The union guys from Philly should cost about $53,799 to do the same job.

Um, I have to side with MTv on this, there's now frigging way I'd pay $54,000 for a job that's supposed to cost $18,000 it just wouldn't happen.

I don't know wouldn't paying an extra $35,866 tick you off too?!

Hal

Hal:
We argue to much so I am not going to contest your labor figures . . . except to say that you have oversimplified by applying your 3X premium to all the work . . . when the article clearly says it only applies to framing . . . drywall is far less.

But, let's use the 30% premium that the TRF report actually points to. There are many other factors which come into play.

Zoning and permits systems in the city are woefully outdated. I'm sure we agree on that. For many of us in the neighborhoods, we have long pushed for "one-stop" shopping for developers - to no avail.

But, if you look outside the city, there still is little or no affordable housing being built. All they seem to do is chew up acres of real estate with huge new tract houses after clearcutting a beautiful field.

In the city, the various abatement programs are much more beneficial to the high end homeowner.

There are progams that the city and state could emulate to encourage affordable housing but it has never been much of a priority to city or state officials.

Here's a slightly different take on the release of TRF's Choices report from the city paper

And it should be pointed out that suburban developer K. Hovnanian is part of the National project in Old City. They seem to be willing to try in the city.

Lastly, there is sizable amount of evidence that the large city developers and contractors (who give big bucks to Dems and Republicans alike) are major players in making things difficult for any outside developer who wants to come into the city.

Building Trade unions a problem? Most definitely. But it goes far deeper than that.

Chris

You're right- but that estimate is accurate - it's based on the framing numbers for a ~2000 sqft house prorated to the sized of the building- actually the spec I've seen for the building indicates it was bigger than the board of assessment - so the cost difference should be more.


Quite true - and I absolutely agree, but who are these powerfull Republicans in Phillly City Hall that the Philly developers are giving money to?

Hal

I guess that proves that the non union scab labor is making too much money.

I've seen people respond to posts that are a few months old, six months old, once even 9 months old. But I think we have a winner here with Zete responding to a FOUR YEAR OLD thread.

__________________
---Shosh

there are still affordable homes at the Riverfront at Palmyra.

http://granor.net/Riverfront_At_Palmyra.php

Well I guess zete isn't doing searches on "corrupt Philly cops" for this thread to turn up in his search.

I wonder what prompted him?

__________________
Buh-bye.